Clean to Shoulder – Comments Appreciated.

[Abe Smith]

So according to Steve Gardner my bent press was disqualified because my clean to the shoulder was high. From the rule book you need to start the lift from the shoulder. Steve indicated that the shoulder was at the clavicle height. However, this point was not made anywhere. I checked the USAWA and the same thing, just mention of shoulder no height restriction. When I brought this up to him he said he asked Al Myers and he said to turn the lift down because the clean was high. I recommend that if the shoulder is defined as clavicle then this should be clearly noted in the rule book and then implemented accordingly. And then all one arm lifts with clean to the shoulder be implemented.

However, this has been a major point to me for several years..and one reason I stopped competing. You have various judges that measure things differently. What is defined as straight (straight leg deadlift, good morning, lying down fly), does a lift constitute a press out or not. For a hobby a lot of this seems counter to getting more people to join in the meets.

Topic

[John Strangeway]

If a lift is for a world record or held at an event by the IAWA, we are at the mercy of the IAWA rulebook. I printed a copy of both so that I could cross my T’s and dot my I’s.

I believe the rule for the clean is to rest on the clavicle or chest so this is probably the rule that got you.

I think gradual progress is being made to align the rules between us. Al could speak more to if that’s happening. Unified rules would help everyone but it will take time.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by John Strangeway.

[KCSTRONGMAN]

The rules according to the IAWA read:
B26 ONE HAND BENT PRESS
The bar should be cleaned to the shoulder in one movement. During the pull to the shoulder the trunk can bend sideways and the elbow can rest on the hip. Once the bar is in position at the shoulder, and gripped at the centre, it should be elevated to arms length overhead by means of lateral pressure. The bar must not touch the hip during the press. At the completion of the lift the lifter will stand erect.

Causes for Failure:
1 Touching the floor with any part of the body other than the feet.
2 Touching the hip with the bar during the press.
3 Failure to complete the lift, standing erect and motionless, with the legs and arms straight, and feet in line with the lifters front aspect.
4 All other causes for failure are the same as for the one hand clean and one hand clean and jerk.
No mention of the clavicle there. So I go to the one hand clean and jerk:
B25 ONE HAND CLEAN AND JERK
The rules for the two hands clean and jerk apply except that the lift is done with either the left or right hand only. An optional grip is used, and the bar is raised to the commensurate shoulder as the lifting arm, in a single movement. The bar must not touch any part of the legs or trunk below the line of the nipples. In receiving the bar at the shoulder it should not make contact with or rest, on the opposite shoulder or chest. The centre of the sternum is used as the line of indication. The free hand may be supported on the thigh or knee of either leg, but must not touch the lifting surface, lifting arm or bar during the lift. With a single distinct effort the lifter will jerk the bar to arms length above the head. The signal to replace the bar will be given on completion of the lift, when the lifter is erect and motionless with the feet on a parallel plane to the torso.

Causes for Failure:
1 Touching the lifting surface, bar or lifting arm with the free arm.
2 Touching the bar with the legs or trunk below the line of the nipples.
3 Touching the chest or shoulder with the bar, on the opposite side to the lifting arm.
4 Allowing the bar to rise above the lower level of the ear, when adjusting the grip prior to the jerk.
5 Failure to control the bar and fix it motionless, at completion.
6 All other causes for failure are the same as for the two hands clean and jerk.

Still not seeing mention of the clavicle. So, off to the two hand clean and jerk, as mentioned in the rule above:
A5 CLEAN AND JERK
From the same start position as for the snatch, the bar should be cleaned to the chest in a single
movement, taking the bar from the platform to the shoulders using either: a squat clean or a power
clean. During the pull the bar may slide along the legs and lap but should not touch the chest before
the final position. During the clean, the elbows and upper arms should not come into contact with the
knees or thighs. The bar should come to rest on the clavicles or chest, above the nipples with the arms
full bent. The bar may be adjusted between the clean and the jerk, allowing the thumbs to be
withdrawn, the bar to be lowered if impeding the breathing and to change the width of the grip. The
feet should return to the straight line, with the legs straight and the lifter recovering in their own time,
before performing the jerk. To jerk, the lifter bends the legs and extends them as well as the arms, to
bring the bar to full extension overhead, in one movement. The lift must not finish with a press out,
and the lifters feet should once again come to finish in line with legs and arms fully extended. Only
one attempt at the jerk will be allowed . When the lifter has finished the lift, fully extended, feet on an
even plane, and motionless, the official will signal to return the bar to the platform.

Causes for Failure:
1 Pulling from the hang.
2 Using more than one movement in the clean.
3 Touching the lifting surface with any part of the body other than the feet.
4 The bar coming into contact with the trunk before the final Clean position.
5 Elbows or arms touching knees or thighs.
6 Stepping off or out of the marked lifting area, with any part of the foot during the lift.
7 More than one attempt at the jerk
8 Uneven extension of the arms.
9 A pause during the jerk, and / or finishing with a press out.
10 Unlocking of the arms after the jerk, prior to the referees signal.
11 Failure to assume the correct finish position, arms and legs extended, bar held motionless, and feet in line and parallel to the plane of the trunk
12 Lowering the bar before the referees signal to replace the bar, or dropping the bar afterwards.

So, that is where the clavical is mentioned, though it takes a little digging to get to it. For what it is worth.

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Abe Smith]

Cool. Thanks for the comments guys! ET, that was a lot of leg work. I appreciate the effort. Hope you guys are doing okay! Next year we can gather at ETs again! Dan Wagman had a hell of a middle finger pull. Guy has fingers of iron!

[KCSTRONGMAN]

No sweat, Abe. Look forward to actually get to go to comps again.

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Al Myers]

Thanks ET for the clarification.

First of all, Abe – sorry that your lift was not allowed. I do agree with you very much that the rules of the All Rounds can be confusing at times. This comp was promoted by the IAWAUK, thus the rule book of the IAWA UK is the one in force (not the USAWA rulebook). I say this because there are still several rule differences in lifts between the two rule books. We have corrected a lot of the issues over the last 10 years, but there are still some there. I’m gonna add the USAWA rule for the bent press:

A7. Bent Press
The lift begins at the lifter’s discretion. The bar may be taken from the platform to the shoulder in any manner. This may be done with a one arm clean, or with two hands, or stood on end and taken onto the shoulder using one or two hands. The bar will then be gripped in the center by one hand with the bar parallel to the platform. Once the lifter is in a standing position, with the bar held at the shoulder, the body is bent forward and sideways while the bar remains in a stationary position. This bending away is continued until the lifting arm becomes straight. The body will be in a bent over position at this point of the lift. The bar is allowed to rotate in any direction during the lift. The non-lifting arm may rest on the body or legs during the lift. Width of feet placement is optional, but must not move once set. The lifting elbow may be brought into contact with the hip during the lift. Once the bar is locked out and the lifting arm straight, the lifter may stand when ready. The lifter may use the non-lifting arm as support on the knee or thigh. The lifting arm must remain straight once locked out. The lift will end on command from an official when the lifter is upright, the feet parallel and in line with the torso, the non-lifting hand free from the body, and the bar overhead and motionless.

As you can see the starting point is stated as “the shoulder”. When the board reviewed this lift over 10 years ago I remember their being discussion between using the term “clavicle” or the “shoulder” here. I argued for the “shoulder” as technically the clavicle sits slightly lower than the top of the shoulder (or deltoid muscle) and is more easy to visualize and evaluate when judging.

However, as all of you know there are differences in how an official evaluates “the grey areas” in the interpretation of rules. Personally, I would give an inch or so above the shoulder but at ear level would say “too high, no good”.

[Author]

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