BARBELLS AND ETHICS

[dwagman]

Besides the dimensional clarifications and other basic info offered in the Rulebook VI.16, the barbell is supposed to be straight and sleeves “are allowed to revolve,” meaning that they don’t have to. So here’s a dilemma and perhaps ethical question to which I’m curious what y’all think.

Regarding the requirement for the barbell to be straight…c’mon, is there really such a thing? I mean, in a gym where people lift heavy weights, don’t all barbells have a certain degree of bend? How much bend is too much bend to disqualify a barbell from use? Besides, not all lifts would benefit from a bend, though some would.

As to revolving sleeves, depending on the lift, the ease by which they revolve can have a huge impact on the amount of weight you can toss. You guys ever see that video Timo put on Youtube a few years back where he timed how long a sleeve turned on his favorite barbell after a spin? It was crazy long and clearly an advantage for some lifts, not others.

So here’s my question: What’s the general consensus about selecting a barbell depending on its characteristics and how they can help you perform a given lift? I remember doing the People’s deadlift in one of Al’s meets and the knurling on what was—I believe—a deadlift bar was next to nonexistent and I couldn’t hold on to it. Would it be unethical to go back and do that lift again with 50+ more pounds on a bar that had good knurling? A powerlifting equipment manufacturing friend of mine offered to give me an Eleiko deadlift prototype bar. It has a 28 mm shaft with a thicker butt to move the plates farther out on the bar but it’s still regulation length and 20 kg. How about increasing my record by 100 pounds on that bar? What about setting a record in a one-armed lift on a barbell that had a slight bend and nearly non-rotating sleeves?

At what point would a lifter take barbell selection too far where it could be considered cheating?

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

Topic

[KCSTRONGMAN]

Does the barbell fall within the limit of the rules? then it is not cheating. Just because you perhaps lifted on a non-optimal bb once, does not mean that lifting on a decent one is cheating. I can do a vast amount (like 100# more) on a 1 arm deadlift with a decent bar than with a trash one that is not optimal due to diameter. Does not make it cheating to use a decent bar. What does fall in the neighborhood of cheating is to use a clearly bent bar on something like a 1 arm deadlift (where the bend would make a difference) when the rules clearly dictate that we should not do this. I have one clearly bent bar that is used strictly in training. the rest are pretty straight.

I'm the lyrical Jesse James

[Al Myers]

This is a topic I could write a long blog on! Which I did here in the forum a week ago but ended up not saving and I lost it all! I was so frustrated its taken me a week to do it again – which I’m sure won’t be as good as it was the first time.

The USAWA rules for a barbell are very lenient. When the rulebook committee discussed this issue years ago it was determined to make them that way so most all gyms would have a bar that was rule compliant. Before the rules stated “barbell rules” using the IWF bar rules from the 1960s. These were very specific and unless you had an old 50 year old york bar the bar you would be using would probably be illegal. I only had a couple of bars in my gym which fitted the old bar rules and both were old bars.

Dan – I remember you doing that Peoples deadlift at my place and I do remember you were limited by grip as you obviously had more strength to do more. That was a second generation Okie Deadlift bar and one of my favorite bars for that lift. Also – I remeber my buddy Chuck lifting a big peoples dl that day with that bar – which was his PR. He loved that bar for that lift. Goes to show that bar selection for a lift varies amongst lifters.

I do not think it is cheating to use a favorable bar when lifting. (as long as its within the current bar rules). My brother in law bob told me once his favorite bar for one handed snatces and C&Js were a old rusty bar that sleeves were pretty much bound up to prevent rotation upon completion. I prefer to call that “lifting strategy” instead of cheating. Often at my meets I will have different bars for the different lifts. But there you go – i pick the bar I WOULD LIKE BEST. Doesn’t mean its that way for everyone.

Good topic for discussion here!

[dwagman]

Al, I actually received a USAWA Forum notice with your message some time back. I had planned to answer it, but it didn’t appear on the Forum and I thought you purposely removed it. Frankly, you had good reason to because the only reason you and Chuck could like that Okie bar is because your hands are too soft and gurly for a MAN’S bar with REAL knurling. I think you should burn that bar along with your posing trunks.

Yeah, I thought this would be a good topic and had hoped for more participation. Regardless, I agree that within the lax rules for the barbell, selection amounts to lifting strategy. It’s probably less of an issue with other strength sports because there you don’t have the ability to compete with your own barbells as we do in meets like Postals and Record Breakers.

Based on Al’s and ET’s comments, I think I’m going to—depending on the lift—prevent the sleeves from turning by pouring sand in ‘em, for other lifts where spin is critical I’ll greez ‘em up like crazy, if there’s a slight bend…no worries, and maybe even use a 1” straight bar without any sleeves (remember those?).

I can’t wait to get that new Eleiko power bar…if the knurling on that thing won’t make me wince, it’s going back…remember the original Texas Power Bar? THAT was a BARBELL, Al! Okie shmokie…

—
Dan

For Body Intellect Brochure click here: https://www.icloud.com/keynote/0fcsokZWooW_1B1uZmL1AI5fA#BI-DW

Those who are enamored of practice without science
are like a pilot who goes onto a ship without rudder or
compass and never has any certainty to where he is going.
Leonardo Da Vinci; 1452-1519

[Al Myers]

It’s not just the bar selection that can affect a lift – but the plates themselves! Some lifts perform better with wide plates while others prefer slim plates. Sometimes bumpers can be an advantage and other times not. Sometimes tight fitting plates are better, and other times loose fitting plates are better.

There are many factors involved in lifting a heavy max weight – but STRENGTH will always override the bars and/or plates that are selected!!!

[Abe Smith]

I would want to know when will someone let me do the inman mile with a safety bar or a bar with significant enough sweep to make it easier to hold on to for longer distances. LOL. When my arms go cold and numb it gets mighty scary to leave them there.

All good discussions since these are the same discussions that have been around since globe fixed weights/disc loaded plates/rotating bars.

[Author]

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